


No SOUL Necessary: Flowey's Happy Ending

by ArgentDandelion



Category: Undertale (Video Game)
Genre: Analysis, Body Dysphoria, Canon Temporary Character Death, Character Analysis, Despair, Emotional Hurt, Empathy, Essays, Gen, Guilt, Healthy Relationships, Heavy Angst, Mental Anguish, Mental Health Issues, Mercy - Freeform, Meta, Nonfiction, Post-Undertale Pacifist Route, Recovery, Redemption, Self-Hatred, Time Travel, Trauma, Undertale Saves and Resets, Violence
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2019-07-23
Updated: 2019-08-20
Packaged: 2020-09-07 17:01:20
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Major Character Death
Chapters: 3
Words: 3,632
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/20312944
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/ArgentDandelion/pseuds/ArgentDandelion
Summary: A work which argues Flowey doesn't need a SOUL or to be turned back into Asriel to be saved.





	1. Flowey's Problems

In many works, Flowey gets a SOUL in a Post-Pacifist timeline, and is often “restored” back to Asriel with a Boss Monster body. Sometimes, it is implied this is only way for Flowey to be happy: that it is impossible to save him, too, so long as he is a soulless flower.

Yet, as the Flowey and PTSD series shows, having a soul is neither necessary nor sufficient for Flowey’s happiness. For one thing, six human SOULs apparently wasn’t enough for him to regain love nor compassion; he only got that after absorbing six human souls and the souls of almost every monster. More importantly, though gaining a soul might make it easier for him to be happy by letting him feel love and compassion again, it wouldn’t solve all his problems.

And Flowey has a lot of problems.

* * *

# Well-Supported by Canon

These aspects of Flowey’s suffering are well-supported by canon.

* * *

## Guilt, Regret, and Self-Loathing

After the God of Hyperdeath fight, Asriel understands if Frisk cannot forgive them, and understands if Frisk hates them. He acted “so strange and horrible” and hurt many people; Asriel believe she has no excuse for what he had done.

If the game is started up again after everyone goes free, Flowey (despite presumed soullessness) says he can’t “go through with it again” (do the same actions to achieve that ending) if the world was reset, so whoever he’s talking to must erase his memories, too. He seems guilty or ashamed at his actions: he talks about the power Chara was “fighting to stop, the power that I wanted to use” (presumably the power of SAVE) with an expression that might be shame.

Furthermore, several prompts in for the flowerbed speech, Asriel discloses he’s blamed himself for the decision to not kill the humans attacking him the whole time. Apparently, a sense of guilt and self-loathing at himself for failing Chara and getting himself killed was why he adopted his “kill or be killed” view. Yet, after seeing Frisk (it’s unspecified when; it could be at the flowerbed itself) he doesn’t regret his decision anymore. He said he did the right thing, and he can’t regret hard choices forever.

* * *

## Lack of Love/Compassion/Empathy; Difficulty Forming Relationships

Flowey cannot feel love nor compassion; it is likely anything approaching empathy eludes him. This is a major impediment to feeling fulfilling relationships. Indeed, the idea he couldn’t feel anything (loving) for anyone made him “despondent”, until he eventually coped by making himself a callous manipulator who didn’t (emotionally) need anyone.

Flowey’s difficulty in forming relationships is a similar problem. Solving others’ problems distracted or amused him for a while, but it didn’t really make him happy. His lack of love and compassion, as well as his ability to rewind time, led him to become estranged from others. People were reduced to sets of numbers, lines and dialogue.

Unable to feel love and compassion, Flowey’s life was surely less happy than before. The closest Flowey could get to fulfilling relationships was just amusement at others, and with time he grew tired of it. He himself likes to think “there’s someone out there…someone that I won’t get tired of.” There’s only one person (Chara) he cares about anymore, and yet he says (with a sad expression) that he couldn’t really care about them.

## Despair

Given how close they were, Chara’s death alone would have been enough for Asriel to fall into a deep depression. Yet, his suffering is only multiplied by several layers of trauma from the plan and its outcome.

Flowey/Asriel believes that, in refusing to kill the humans attacking him and getting killed himself, he “failed” Chara. He expects Chara to be mad at him for this.

Flowey discloses that, when he woke up as a flower, he “couldn’t feel anything for anyone.” He spent weeks with Asgore, trying to vain to feel love. Eventually, Flowey became so distressed at his failure he quit and run away. He went to Toriel, but even she couldn’t make him “feel whole again”. He became despondent: he decided to didn’t “want to live in a world without love anymore—a world without you, Chara”. Flowey then tried to “erase himself from existence”.

He discovered his power of SAVE after this, starting ‘Pacifist Routes’ of his own and solving others’ problems flawlessly. Their companionship amused him, for a while. But, as he repeated time, he found them predictable; without compassion, he grew estranged from others and saw them as just lines of dialogue and numbers.

He killed everyone in the Underground, just to add novelty to his boring life. But eventually, he grew tired of that, too. He was surely very lonely and thought his existence pointless, but the very things he had lost (and gained) with his new life as a flower trapped him in despair.

* * *

# Extrapolations

While recurring elements in works set in a Post-Pacifist timeline, these aspects of Flowey’s suffering aren’t so well-supported in canon.

* * *

## Body Dissatisfaction

A recurring element in fan works is Flowey’s dissatisfaction or distress at his new flower body, and its limits.

In the Genocide Route, Flowey shows fear and helplessness at realizing he can’t feel his arms and legs and how his whole body had turned into a flower.  
If he had some choice in form when absorbing six human SOULs, the fact he had two big, clawed arms may very well be a compensation for his long-lost limbs. As soon as he absorbs the equivalent of seven human SOULs, he takes a body identical to his old Boss Monster one, and says: “Finally. I was so tired of being a flower.”

In some cases, it’s hard to tell whether Asriel/Flowey is dissatisfied by what he is or who he has become in that new body; he might conflate the two and separate his existence into two identities.

Flowey is neither human nor monster, but a soulless, nigh-necromantic magic flower whose existence is utterly unprecedented. After attacking Flowey, Toriel calls him a “miserable creature”. Flowey describes himself and who he thinks is a soulless Chara as “creatures” as well.   
In his flowerbed speech, Asriel calls Flowey not a “he”, but an “it”, and tells Frisk not to think of Flowey as Asriel, saying: “I just want you to remember me like this. Someone that was your friend for a little while.” (It’s unclear whether he means “as a Boss Monster” or “as someone compassionate”)

## Parental Separation

Even in works where Flowey gets a soul, “becomes Asriel”, and has Frisk as an adoptive sibling as a sort of Dreemurr Family 2.0, things just aren’t the same. Chara is still dead, and Asgore and Toriel are still estranged/separated.

It must have been a shock for a newly-awakened Flowey to go back home and find Toriel’s old throne under a sheet, and to search for Toriel for so long only to find she’s _as far away as possible_ from Asgore.   
Realizing his parents, who used to be such sickening sweethearts, have separated and no longer love each other is bad enough. Knowing that they separated over Asgore’s declaration of war, which only happened because Asriel and Chara died, just makes things worse: Flowey might believe it’s (indirectly) his fault.

While Toriel and Asgore are probably not _technically_ divorced in _Undertale_, Flowey could have reacted in a comparable way to the kids of divorced parents. After all, kids developing mild depression after their parents’ divorce in a common response.  
In fact, this “mild depression” can get worse; according to Helpguide.org, some of the symptoms, “frequent violent and angry outbursts”, “withdrawal from loved ones”, and “disinterest in loved activities” sound like things Flowey would do.

## Uncertainty He Even Deserves Happiness/A Second Chance with a Boss Monster Body

In several fan works, Flowey/Asriel sometimes believes he doesn’t deserve happiness, and/or a second chance with a Boss Monster body. Regardless of form, he might believe he doesn’t deserve happiness because of all his terrible deeds, and also think he’ll only bring misery to others.

To this end, he might regret going up to the Surface with Frisk, or even seek isolation. Indeed, only Frisk knows Asriel broke the barrier, and Asriel spends the rest of his short existence as “himself” by the flower patch in the Ruins, apparently unnoticed. He doesn’t want his parents to know he was alive again, and won’t go up to see them, because he thinks it would just break their hearts. Furthermore, in some works, Flowey lives an isolated life in the Underground as a sort of prison sentence for his Flowey Run crimes.

While Flowey cannot feel love nor compassion, it’s still possible he could feel guilt and regret. It’s possible he remembers what it was like to feel love and compassion, even for a little while, and wants Frisk and the other monsters to be happy even if he cannot.


	2. Workarounds & Solutions for Flowey's Problems

## Introduction

As the [previous part](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/post/186501608526/no-soul-necessary-floweys-happy-ending-part-1) in the series noted, Flowey has many psychological problems, and getting a soul might not help. Yet, despite his soullessness, he can still have his happy ending.

For this, Flowey must do eight things: lose his power of SAVE (done), come to terms with his guilt and regret, stop hating himself, make meaningful relationships with others (even if they’re not very strong ones), fill his life with fun, novelty and piles of happy moments, and (on a more minor note) adjust to life as a soulless flower through spending time with humans like him, learn the perks of being a flower, and quality-of-life improvements like a flowerpot-wheelchair.

* * *

## Guilt, Regret, and Self-Loathing

In some ways, Flowey resembles a person with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD, or sociopathy/psychopathy). Such people are often thought to not feel guilt or regret, and if they do, to not learn from it.

Yet, Flowey is different. He does feel regret or guilt. Most obviously, he feels guilty about “failing” Chara in the buttercup plan.  
One could argue this is just a memory of guilt when he was Asriel. However, that’s clearly not the case: in the Genocide Route, he also immediately regrets telling the genocidal human “Creatures like us…wouldn’t hesitate to KILL each other if we got in each others’ way”.   
In addition, in his True Reset speech, he says he doesn’t “think he can do it again”. Clearly, even when unable to feel love and compassion, he can feel some sense of regret or wrongdoing.

Even before his murderous Flowey Runs, Flowey had plenty of reasons to feel guilt. Firstly, his actions in the buttercup plan got both Chara and himself killed. Not only that, but, after the deaths of his children, Asgore declared war on humanity, causing Toriel to leave him. While Asriel/Flowey is only indirectly to blame, he likely felt very guilty when learning what had happened since his death.

Furthermore, Flowey’s guilt for murdering everyone in the Underground countless times (including Frisk), could lead to the Dobby effect, where inextinguishable guilt leads to excessive self-punishment. Reflecting on his actions might even lead to self-loathing: either for who he is (someone who’s callously treated the whole Underground as his plaything) or what he is (a soulless, nigh-necromantic flower-abomination).

However, Flowey feeling guilt, regret, and self-loathing would both hinder and help his recovery.

On one hand, guilt and regret creates consequences for his actions. These consequences could be a workaround to his inability to feel love and compassion, and could help him stay out of trouble and keep more-or-less fulfilling relationships. A sense of self-loathing, too, might motivate him to become a better person, so he doesn’t hate himself.

On the other hand, Flowey might, out of guilt or self-loathing, choose to stay in the Underground, as a sort of prison sentence.[1](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/tagged/Flowey-the-Flower#fn:1) He might also wallow in self-loathing to the point of gaining (or worsening) his depression. However, these forms of self-punishment won’t help him get better; he must confront his regret and guilt.

While he does just that (as Asriel) in the full flowerbed speech of the Pacifist epilogue, in some works, this meeting doesn’t happen. In fact, regaining a soul and love and compassion would just make things worse: his guilt would surely increase, thus making his mental health plummet.

* * *

## Relationships with Others, and His Lack of Love, Compassion and Empathy

Losing his power of SAVE takes away its corrupting, mental-health eroding influence on him. Without it, he might be able to reconnect with others. After all, since he could memorize responses, people became predictable. His reducing people to sets of numbers and lines of dialogue worsened his problem. Without that power, people on the Surface cannot become predictable.

Furthermore, he can’t undo any of his social mistakes: he must be more careful to start, keep, and strengthen relationships with others, even if they’re weak due to his soullessness. He could learn to behave himself through self-interest: with permanent consequences, he can’t afford to snap and kill someone.

Though Flowey cannot really feel love and compassion, if his condition is anything like sociopathy, he could surely _imitate_ signs of it, to some extent. Again supposing his condition is like sociopathy, he could be capable of _cognitive empathy_: a largely conscious drive to understand another’s perspective or mental state. It’s synonymous with perspective-taking, and it should allow him to act in the right ways to achieve wanted outcomes, and avoid bad ones. If he did perspective-taking and risk-balancing quickly and habitually, few could tell the difference.

It’s very likely Flowey is lonely. Though Flowey cannot really love anyone, he nonetheless longs for someone like him, someone unpredictable he’ll “never get bored of”, someone “like him”. He wants someone he’ll care about, even if he can’t _really_ care about them. Even if he cares more about others as _resources_ than people, if he only wants understanding and affinity, rather than actual _love_, it’s achievable.

Frisk could easily fulfill Flowey’s needs. Frisk is certainly unpredictable: Flowey expects, and _wants_, Frisk to finish him off after the Omega Flowey fight. Yet, Frisk does not: Frisk’s incomprehensible mercy baffles and scares Flowey.

While Frisk would likely be Flowey’s strongest relationship, it’s possible he could find new joys in the monsters whose responses he memorized as they adjusted to life on the Surface.  
Papyrus is one possibility: in a Neutral end dialogue, Flowey himself says it took a long time to “get bored of him.” It’s possible for Papyrus to become monsters’ ambassador, rather than Frisk. Seeing Papyrus adapt to the difficulties of human-monster politics could be exciting for Flowey.

There’s also humans: a novel experience for Flowey. Asriel himself says, “There are a lot of Floweys on the Surface”. Though he surely meant to warn that life on the Surface wasn’t perfect, it’s true some humans feel little to no love and compassion and are still law-abiding. It’s very likely Flowey can find people just like him on the Surface. He could join a group of PTSD sufferers, who have gone emotionally numb from trauma, or socialize with humans with ASPD, who naturally don’t feel empathy.

## Despair

Flowey killed himself not only because he didn’t “want to live in a world without love”, but also because he didn’t want to live in a world without Chara. If not love, Flowey needs something to live for. In short, to stave off his despair, he needs purpose, meaning, and friends.

Flowey is unique for his immense knowledge of the Underground and all its people. By exhausting every possibility, he likely learned how every monster would react in any situation. This would be handy in human-monster politics, especially if his knowledge even partially applies to humans. Flowey could, as a sort of penance, find purpose in ensuring _everyone_ is happy on the Surface, and advise whoever is the ambassador. After all, politics is so much more complicated than flirting and joking, and if Frisk is the ambassador, they’re just a kid.

If he sentences himself Underground, Flowey’s despair will never lift. A few works mention recovering from trauma through happy little moments piling up; with his days on the Surface filled with fun and meaningful activities, Flowey might eventually get better.

In both the Pacifist and Genocide Route, Flowey says he’s tired of being a flower. While he might be conflating soullessness with having a flower body, and assuming getting a Boss Monster body would make him psychologically revert to “Asriel”, it’s possible having a flower body in itself makes him unhappy.  
For one thing, he can’t manipulate objects like he used to; he doesn’t even have hands. His mobility is also limited and strange as a flower; he probably can’t climb stairs, nor ride elevators.

Though most Post-Pacifist works show Flowey in a flower pot, this would probably make his condition worse. One work has Flowey move in a big flower pot with robotic arms (with hands) and legs; another fan improves upon the flowerpot trope with a dirt-filled wheelbarrow.

* * *

**Related Reading**

  * [Flowey and PTSD](https://archiveofourown.org/works/20165746/chapters/47775952)
  * [Kill ‘em with Kindness](https://archiveofourown.org/works/20173414) (actually spun off from this section)

* * *

  1. The author shall dodge whether Flowey deserves at least a life sentence in favor of how to give him a happy life (that is, SAVE him). [↩︎](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/tagged/Flowey-the-Flower#fnref:1)


	3. Self-Compassion

“We’ve got more beef than a prizewinning cow, but I want to forgive you so hard right now.”

If Flowey can’t feel love and compassion, it’s possible he can’t feel love and compassion _for himself_. Under his guilt and self-loathing, he may be unable to understand his life is valuable, and that he deserves happiness.

If he genuinely can never feel self-compassion, and so let himself pursue happiness again, then he might never really be happy. He might be haunted forever; he might forever disbelieve Frisk if Frisk claims he deserves happiness. More compellingly, _he himself_ (as Asriel, temporarily) tries to separate his existence as a soulless flower from his brief return as a Boss Monster/Boss Monster-looking being, and _has no compassion for Flowey_.

Yet, Flowey’s happiness may not be _impossible_: his True Reset speech could be motivated just as easily by a little bit of compassion as by guilt. Perhaps absorbing the souls of so many monsters had some after-effects, however small.  
It’s unlikely _everyone_ he’s ever killed would forgive him, as they don’t remember, but Frisk could, and maybe that would be enough.

To get his happy ending, Flowey must, to some extent, value himself _for himself_. As one could call this “selfishness” or “arrogance”, this might seem contradictory. Yet, it makes sense: kind, compassionate Asriel was too selfless, too altruistic, too self-sacrificing. He didn’t care enough about himself, or his worries. His love or loyalty to Chara got him killed, and guilt-ridden for who knows how long.[1](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/#fn:1)

So far as can be inferred from his story in the Genocide Route, when he woke up as a flower and couldn’t feel love for or from his parents, he turned his turmoil inward. There’s no evidence he lashed out at first. He might have instead suffered in silence, until his despair grew too great and he killed himself. He reloaded and used his power for good, but when it didn’t make him happy, he turned to violence to fill his life with fun, with some sort of meaning.

Later on, Asriel accepts if Frisk neither forgives nor comforts him, apparently believing he doesn’t deserve it for all his bad deeds. At the flowerbed, he says he can’t go up the surface “like this” (resembling Asriel), because it would only break his parents’ hearts. He doesn’t think well of Flowey; in fact, in the flowerbed speech, he talks about Flowey as if he’s a separate being, and an object rather than a person.[2](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/#fn:2)

In the True Reset speech, Flowey still focuses on others: others’ lives and happiness, not his own. He talks about everyone’s happiness and letting Frisk “live their life”, but doesn’t mention himself. His persuasion seems half-hearted, and he doesn’t object much to the idea his memories will be erased: perhaps he’s resigned to his fate as a tool for the True Pacifist ending.

That caring for oneself is ‘selfish’ is often drilled into humans’ heads by society. People are often taught to sacrifice for others, but not how to appreciate and care for themselves.

It is possible monster society takes caring for others, including self-sacrifice, to greater lengths than human society. Asgore himself suffered so much to give his people hope (though that’s entwined with his responsibility as king).  
Monsters also believe their very souls are made of love, hope, and compassion; before breaking the barrier, Asriel notes how strange it is that many monsters love Frisk despite barely knowing them.

If Flowey indeed stays in the Underground, as many works assume, it could be from the belief he doesn’t deserve happiness, that his happiness means misery to others, or both. To SAVE Flowey, he must balance his guilt with his altruism. Given the _sheer scope_ of his crimes (despite the fact time travel erased it all) and indisputably selfish motives in doing so, convincing him he deserves to live a good life may be the most difficult battle of all.

**Related Reading**

  * [Kill 'em With Kindness](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/post/186824383564/kill-em-with-kindness-floweys-desires) (spun off from Part 2 of this series)
  * [Flowey and PTSD](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/tagged/Flowey-and-PTSD/chrono/)

* * *

  1. More specifically, if his [playtime of 9999:99](https://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/164983130095/i-have-another-question-to-ask-again-i-am-not) is true, he’s been “playing” and likely suffering as a flower for a minimum of ~13.6 months. [↩︎](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/#fnref:1)

  2. Calling Flowey just “a flower” and “it” rather than “he”. Some caveats: the whole idea of 'it’ being dehumanizing doesn’t work so well when nearly a third of monsters apparently go by 'it’. Some monsters also casually refer to each other by breed, such as Undyne being referred to as “a fish/a fish lady”. At the very least, Asriel is misgendering Flowey. [↩︎](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/#fnref:2)

**Author's Note:**

> Originally posted on my [Tumblr](https://argentdandelion.tumblr.com/). Feel free to comment on this article there or here.


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